Membership Standards Vote

Anticipation and emotions are high as we prepare for the membership standards vote this week. Regardless of which way the vote goes, the important question for each of us is, where will we stand after the ballots are counted? To help provide some perspective, I’d like to share a letter from Ray Capp, chairman of the National Order of the Arrow Committee. As always, please share your thoughts using the comments function.

165 thoughts on “Membership Standards Vote

  1. Whatever the outcome of the vote is on Thursday, I am back to work on Friday to serve the greatest number of young people possible through Scouting and to insure that their experience is the finest!

    • Well said Jack. I’m right there with you on Friday. Lets embrace our movement and inspire others with our steadfast belief that what our movement provides to young people simply can’t be found elsewhere

    • Wayne – We at the Cascade Pacific Council are all in to serve youth. We are embarking on a movement to reintroduce Scouting to Portland’s most difficult to serve neighborhoods. North Portland is gang affected, crime riddled and full of needs. What better place for Scouting to be than at the very apartment complexes where young men whom we consider to be God’s children live? In a time where the nation is divided on Scouting, we are unified that all boys in the city need what we have to offer. We hope this effort brands Scouting locally as a group that does rather than engages in debate. It won’t be what we say that makes the headlines, but it will be the help we offer to young men in North and East Portland who will have their lives changed by the program we have all benefitted from. Thanks for your leadership, Wayne. We appreciate the difficult position you and the national leadership have had to navigate these past few months.

    • Practice full acceptance. Never give up. Work hard and play harder.
      Change comes gradually, stay positive.
      I doubt Baden Powell ever turned a boy away.
      I’m all in because our youth need us. Vote with your heart.
      District Executive, Coastal Empire Council, Georgia

  2. Well said. Thanks for sharing this with us, Wayne. It’s a tough time for all, and this video provides a needed boost.

  3. Great Message Chief! I’m all in. Regardless of the outcome of the vote, my enthusiasm and mission as a Scout Employee and Volunteer will not diminish or change.

  4. I was fatigued with the constant issue that had nothing to do with changing our program, the Scout Oath, or the Scout Law. Last week my son’s Pack where I serve as the Cubmaster held our crossover ceremony and it re-charged me. There isn’t a boy in that group that I would turn my back on and I remembered why I choose to be an executive. Being Loyal isn’t just sticking around when things are going our way it means we are here during the good and bad. Living by the Scout Oath and Law is a challenge, even as an adult and as an executive.

  5. Thank you so much for your message! I will be here after the vote!!! We have youth that depend of Scouting!!!

    Philip Wright
    Assistant Scout Executive
    Chattahoochee Council

  6. A truth for me: I have a 10 month old boy at home, and I do not want him to grow up in a world without Scouting. I will be at work on Friday…no matter what.

  7. If everyone would just remember that the precept of Scouting is a movement to teach character, citizenship and personal development, I think Scouting would continue to flourish as it has for over 100 years. Whenever you organize such a movement, there have been struggles between those with agendas. Let us put our agendas aside and keep moving on with the foundation of our movement; to help other people, to live by the Scout Oath and Law, live our duty to God, and live our duty to our country. I am not going to give up on Scouting, but will continue to live and work to make sure every boy has the same opportunity I had; to join the best organization for boys in the world!

  8. Thanks for sharing Ray’s letter. It is a great reminder that the focus needs to stay kids. They need us more than ever.

  9. Chief – I’m in. As are my 2 sons! They wouldn’t be the young men they are without Scouting in their lives. Charlie Rogers, Scout Executive, Chester County Council

  10. Scouting is more important now than it has ever been. We must continue to serve boys and youth and make them better adults. However, next time a special interest tries to change us we need to stand strong and be steadfast and immovable. I love being a professional and will continue to serve our youth.

  11. I will be here Friday as well! I often get tired of feeling like everything we do is a constant struggle but I also wonder, if I don’t carry the torch of Scouting, who will? I am ready for the vote to happen so we can move on! No matter the outcome.

  12. Well said Mr. Brock, and I congratulate Scouting for the open discussion and willingness to take this difficult issue to a vote. We live in a democracy and we’re living true to it. Once the vote is taken, let’s respect the result and all unite to continue providing Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers and Explorers the best youth program known to our Country and the World. Yours in Scouting
    Fernando Aran,

  13. Thank you for sharing this message. I have been involved in scouting for 42 years. I am an Eagle Scout. We have 8 Eagle Scouts in my family going all the way back to my Grandfather. i have four sons, two of which are Eagles and the other two working in that direction. I have to say that if the Boy Scouts allow Gays into scouting then I will be leaving the Scouting movement. I have seen first hand what a gay scout leader did to boys on a campout. Our Scout Oath and Law are standards that you DO NOT change. If “gays” want to be in scouting then let them start their own program…I am disappointed with this neutral video and how this message has weaken the Scout Oath and Law.

    • Amen! I believe in scouting the way it is. If we allow the standard to be changed the program will be irrelevant. Open your eyes National leaders don’t sell your soul to the gay and lesbian agenda. You give them one inch now and be ready to give up the whole nine yards later. Have a back bone, let us stand for what we believe in!

    • Meaning that person should be removed for Pedophilia, not because he is gay. You should not throw away a barrel of apples just because there is one rotten one in the bunch. Some of those apples are tremendous, (just as leaders are tremendous -regardless of the gender of the person they go home to)

  14. Jim Dillon, Cleveland, Ohio
    I have worked for the BSA for over 25 years and my Father was a Scouting Professional for 38 years. I have watched this issue tear at our organization for 20 years.
    No one should be penalized for something they cannot help unless it is against the law. People may not agree with my stance but I would think that we all can agree that this subject has been harmful to our organization. This vote will not end anything. We need to continue helping kids. We do not need to continue to be a social platform for groups using us.

  15. Whichever side of the isle you wind up, if you care about Scouting you should continue to push forward. The Scouting program is not about giving up or quitting and if leave due to this one issue, you are missing the bigger picture.

  16. Wayne,
    What you are “really” saying is that funding from a few Fortune 500 companies determines this outcome. It’s all about money and you know it. How about keeping our policy and search for other like minded fortunes like chic-fil-a or hobby lobby.
    It’s a safety concern for the gays as well as the straights. Do you realize how much harassment will come to the gay scouts from the straight ones. And let’s also say the gays may harm the straights. It’s safety both ways.
    You say teach a kid how to shave. Well lets let the older gay scouts teach them something much worse. Is that ok? NO!! That’s what will happen.
    I promise you that if this change occurs you will lose more good that you will get. But on the flip side you will be funded. Which is what you want.
    Stand up and be a man of god. That will give you the direction you will need to see what you are doing.


  17. I simply envision boys inside and outside the movement following a charismatic gay Scout who assures them that being gay is as normal as Rockwell painting without saying a word. Some boys will try it out, as boys will. I envision those boys leading a life cut short because gays have a life expectancy 20 years shorter than average and asking “why did no one tell me this was wrong and deadly?” Worse still, I see boys whose souls are put at risk. Boys with no moral compass. Boys who will see the obvious contradiction between “morally straight” “clean” and “reverent” and the gay lifestyle as seen in every gay pride parade nationwide. That contradiction drains those very words of meaning if BSA accepts homosexuality. With those words goes the Scout Oath and Law, by which we try to live. Boys will see our preaching as hypocrisy by the contradictory example we set. We will produce jaded boys who will be adept at lying to themselves. The contradiction goes to the very core of our Western belief systems, including the Bible. I think of the Christian boys who will face intense pressure to accept something the Bible describes, Old Testament and New, as perverse, vile, and deadly. Ovid and other Romans also saw it as a perversion and madness so it is not just Christians who had their doubts. Certainly, Judaism and Islam regard it as wrong. It is a deadly idea that has been introduced into our Christian societies by cultural marxism. It is doing what it was intended to do: destroy everything that is good, pure, noble, and honourable about America. I feel sorry for my friends who will accept the lie of homosexuality because it breaks down more than Boy Scouts. It breaks down families, Churches and our very nation. Character counts, now more than ever. This is a line we cannot cross. For the sake of the boys who need the Scout Oath and Law to mean something we need to reject this contradiction of the very words “morally straight”, “clean” and “reverent”. All I ask is that you stand by the Scout Oath and Law as it has stood for 100 years teaching permanent, eternal virtues. I am confident of heaven’s applause and of history’s verdict for my stand. Though it may take years to realize our disastrous mistake. Indeed, it is late in the day for our country if there is not room for even one organization that stands against homosexuality.

    • Lloyd, you are right but the change is inevitable. We have leaders who feel that maintaining standards that support traditional Judao-Christian values is out of date and out of step with society. People see nothing wrong with living together, even having children out of wedlock. Marriage is ‘until it is difficult’ and over a third of our kids live in a single parent environment. Scouting will still be a great place to learn skills and leadership but many will question if it is the moral compass that they had known in the past. Thanks for your posting.

      • Why can’t the gays and atheist just leave Scouting alone and form thier own organizations.

    • AMEN to brother King’s comments! After the supreme court ruling, BSA should never have put this out on the floor again! National Board – you have let us down by doing so!! We have fought long and hard. We would not be in this situation of having to vote if you had stood firm!! Shame on you! How can we respect and follow leadership that is going against BSA principals? This video was disappointing.

      • I agree, Homosexuality has no place in Scouting. We have the Supreme Court behend us.But it’s really not a homosexual thing, it’s all about the money and corprate sponsorship. I’m sorry, if the vote goes to allow them in I am out. It’s going to be the youth for now, and how long do you think the adult homosexuals will stand and let the BSA just allow the youth? NOT LONG that’s for sure. I feel in my heart this is the end of BSA as we know it today. No matter what others say history states the facts. Our country as a whole in on the decline. What’s next, take a Scout is reverant and exchance it for a scout is equal? No sir I am out should the vote open the gates.

      • The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Three points of the scout oath and law are “morally straight” “clean” and “reverent”. How will you ever again be taken seriously as an organization teaching these values if you accept homosexuals? The gay lifestyle is the exact opposite of these values. Just watch any “gay pride” parade in any city in America. We are being tempted by power, and money, to disregard our core mission. It is a trap designed to destroy what we teach. What does it matter if BSA still exists and no longer carries out our core mission? It would be pointless. Nothing more than a camping club. Does “morally straight”, “clean” and “reverent” matter? Does character count? Show me. You have a teaching moment here to show that these principles matter more than money, more than popularity, more than power. That they are universal and permanent. Lord Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the Scouting movement, once said, “Scouting is nothing less than applied Christianity” – (Scouting & Christianity, 1917). When asked where religion came into Scouting, Baden-Powell replied, “It does not come in at all. It is already there. It is a fundamental factor underlying Scouting…” (Religion and the Boy Scout and Girl Guides Movement–an address, 1926). You cannot be all things to all people, unless you abandon all standards.

    • Mr. King,

      You have read my mind and thoughts completely. As a current Scoutmaster, Asst Cubmaster and Den Leader a vote of Yes for the amendment will only cause our private organization to crumble from within. What will happen to the “homeless” troops and packs after their Charter Organizations cease their involvement in scouting? What of the members that have said they will stop their FOS donations if the amendment passes? We have lost our vision and promise to follow the Scout Law & Oath in our everyday life.

    • Mr. King, amen to your posting…we cannot allow the “gay” agenda impact scouting. If we allow gay men and boys into scouting then the powers that be must change the Scout Oath and Law. Character counts and will always count. Being morally straight means it is right for all people, at all times and in all places…Homosexuals do not belong in Scouts….they are not born gay, but choose to be gay. Making a moral choice means you are “clean” and “Reverent”

      • Why is it when conservative groups or individuals express their views (which is their right), the liberal left ALWAYS cuts them down because it does not agree with there PC agenda, shame on you…it is pretty sad when Americans, adult scout leaders, and other concerned Christians express their legitimate concerns for the safety and well being for young men. I have seen first hand what a Gay scout leader has done to young boys who were raped on a camp out. I don’t ever want that to happen again. Being Morally Straight contradicts the gay lifestyle and it has no place in scouting…period

      • As I have already mentioned, Mr. Scott, just because you were unfortunate enough to run into one gay child molester does not mean that all gay people are child molesters, like you keep asserting. No one is cutting you down for not being politically correct, they are chastising you for being prejudiced and bigoted in your beliefs and for spreading misinformation.

      • Also, Mr. Scott, for your sake I will copy and paste this for what must be the fourth time in here; the definition of “morally straight” has nothing to do with one’s sexuality or orientation. You are again spreading misinformation by continuing to bring this up.

        “. . . and morally straight.

        To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.”

        “A Scout is Clean.
        A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.

        taken from here:

        By continuing to assert that homosexuality violates Scouting ethics despite the lack of any mention of sexuality anywhere in Scouting’s precepts, and by continuing to label all homosexuals as pedophiles and rapists, you are only confirming the fact that you hold prejudiced views against LGBT individuals, and you are trying to project them onto the BSA.

      • It is clear that this issue is dividing the scouting movement and it is very sad that we live in an age where people that being “gay” is a normal lifestyle. You can quote all your liberal theology you want, it does not change the truth…

    • In my opinion I would no more want you as my son’s scoutmaster than an openly gay scoutmaster. There is a whole world out there that is not defined by any one persons belief system and that is what we should be preparing our boys for. My son is in scouting because he enjoys service to his commumity, outdoors, and the joy of being with other youth (boys and girls – venture crew), and is not there to hear or learn about any religious beliefs (we do that when we worship at the church of our choice).

      Further more the continual prepetuation of the myth that gay equal pedophile really needs to end. Most pedophiles are straight men not homosexual.

      • Thier are Executives that agree and it’s disturbing when others can’t respectfully. Thank you for allowing your child to serve in Scouting. There are like minded and those who don’t that are respectful and those are the ones that will continue to serve as such, regardless of the outcome.

      • Jason, there are also professionals and ‘experts’ that believe the world is flat and that the sun orbits the Earth.

  18. Thursday will exemplify the meaning of “democracy at work”. No matter the outcome, my 43+ years of doing my best to further the citizenship and character building traits of those youth I have served shall continue.
    Philip A. Johnson
    Miami Lakes Florida

    • C Wallace,

      Not all homosexuals are pedophiles but all male leaders that sexually exploit male scouts by definition are homosexual.

      • Yes, by definition. However, these males leaders you speak of exploiting male scouts already exist in scouting under the cover of being straight married Christian men. So what exactly is your point. Once again I am not saying that homosexuals should be part of scouting, I’m just saying that the open bigotry expressed in the original response was equally concerning to me as openly homosexual leaders and youth are, but for very different reasons. I know more want a straight Christian leader spewing his personal religious and relationship views, than I would want a homosexual leader expressing his views on these matters. One last note, one does not have to be Christian to be in scouting, therefore not all things in scouting revolve around Christianity, some of my favorite scouting leaders are of non-Christian religions. Christianity should not be the reason for exclusion of homosexuals. Don’t think for one minute that there aren’t a large number of homosexual leaders in scouting already, at every level, that have never once even thought about exploiting a youth!

  19. Ray Capp’s letter was a wonderful message for you, Wayne, to share with all of us. Regardless of our meeting’s vote on this proposal, I intend to stay in Scouting, and based on our meetings last week, the vast majority of our council’s Scouters intend to as well.

  20. I do agree that kids need our program regardless of which way the vote goes. When you look at all the effort and energy and dollars that have been spent on this issue and donors that have used the homosexual issue as an excuse to defund or not to fund Councils and what could have been done with those funds to help low income, youth at risk or kids in general you have to ask if this is a fight we want to continue. The truth seems to be that special interest groups and activists can force their opinion on a private organization. Logically, this step will be followed by the admission of atheist youth and of homosexual and atheist adults. Until then the activists have vowed to continue to label the BSA as bigots, hate mongers and our standards as discriminatory. Once we make this first change, I really don’t feel that we can resist the other changes.

    • I have to agree with your point about the next steps. It’s something most people don’t fully think through. Here’s an organization which has basically stated homosexuality is wrong and we don’t want you to join for many, many years. Why would any homosexual want to join that group?

      If you really honestly think that through all the way, there is an answer. They don’t want what BSA has offered, they want a different program.

      If the resolution passes, what do you do when an openly or avowed homosexual youth ages out? Kick him out of the program according to the proposal–it’s homosexual youth that are allowed, not homosexual adults. Anyone that doesn’t see the law suits coming from that isn’t thinking clearly.

  21. Lloyd King is one of the few who actually understands this moral (not societal) issue. It’s about right and wrong–and unfortunately, some in our movement are pushing with all their might to force everyone else to embrace wrong.

  22. I love being a professional and will continue no matter the outcome to serve our youth. Well said Mr. Brock. With a firm and steadfast mind one should hold under all conditions

    Linn Spiller,
    DE, South Florida Council

  23. I am sticking with the BSA no matter what happens on Thursday. We need to stick up for this organization and continue to serve youth to the best of our ability! I pledge my loyalty to the aims, methods, and values of Scouting!

  24. Mr. Scott – Where in the Scout Oath or Law does it talk about what religion, motto, or creed to abide by? Through my involvement I always understood the importance to be that we teach young men to believe in a God, have a motto, and live by a creed. We open our doors to chrisitans, jews, muslims, hindus, africans, americans, chinese, etc in scouting, and it is through this acceptance and encouragement of diversity that we have built the foundation for the organization. It is through acceptance that we will continue to build a better tomorrow for the boys and young men of this country. I would challenge you to continue being a positive force in young people’s lives regardless of outside agendas being forced upon scouting. Exercise your will for acceptance of all individuals and continue on.

    • Thank God (Buddah, or whoever you worship) that someone finally brought this up! Why does everyone keep saying only what is in the Bible? Scouting is open to all that have a DUTY TO GOD… and all that have a duty to God (regardless of his or her name) do not believe homosexuality is immoral, unclean, irreverent or deadly. Thank you Jon!

    • Mr. Lowry, I take the Scout Oath and Law Seriously, I never said anything about a “religion” but I do take my relationship with God seriously…to me, scouts has been a way of life for 42 years, like most scouters I am camping at least twice a month (4 sons), several meetings throughout each week, etc. My grandfather was the first Eagle in our family in 1922.

      Diversity is important and yes the scout door is open to all faiths…and each scout recites the same Scout Oath and Law…being Morally Straight is not up for ones own Interpretation. The same holds true for being clean, not just be physically clean but mentally clean. i would challenge you to take a stand for Scouts everywhere. I seen first hand what a “gay” scouter leader has done to 6 boys on a campout. 2 of those boys are still my best friends and they are still impacted by what happened…

      I have expressed my opinion just as you have expressed yours. I am glad you are in scouts and I hope you continue to have a positive experience.

      • You are correct, the Scout Oath and Law are not up for interpretation. Let us look at what the relevant parts of the Oath and Law mean:

        “. . . and morally straight.

        To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.”

        “A Scout is Clean.
        A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.

        taken from here:

        You may notice, sir, that there is no mention of sexuality or sexual orientation in the Oath or Law, or in the explanation of their meanings. Respectfully, it seems to me that your interpretation of the Oath and Law may be the one that is distorted.
        It is truly unfortunate that crimes were committed upon your Scouts and friends by a gay Scouter. These crimes are despicable and completely unacceptable. However, you are thus branding ALL homosexuals as criminals. This is entirely untrue and unfair; it is essentially prejudice and profiling. There are millions of LGBT individuals across the world – Scouts, Scouters, and non-members alike – who exemplify the ethics and values of Scouting, and have strong characters in general. To marginalize all gays as pedophiles and criminals is simply bigotry.

  25. I will remain a dedicated leader for the same reasons. The kids shouldn’t suffer because of of issues beyond their control. The boys aren’t changing, the program isn’t changing, and I pray the leaders choose not to leave. The excellent program BSA offers is unsurpassed and this issue has dragged a great program’s reputation through the mud. It’s so sad.

  26. Even thou my personal opinion does not favor our current membership standards and I don’t believe the proposal satisfies all parties for our against, I know one thing. I believe in the Scouting ideals and I know that boys and leaders in Scouting program recieve an intangible, pragmatic experience that no other organization can replicate. Scouts are trustworthy and caring. And after the vote, despite our own viewpoints, we must stand in solidarity with each other. And no matter the outcome, we should not fight or demean another’s viewpoints, weather pro or con on the issue because our young boys are watching us and we are responsible for thier future. So I ask you Scouting friends, please react professionally and consciously and even thou your viewpoint may or may not have been amended, we have a responsibility to stand and support each other as one Pack, one Troop and one Crew. God Bless.

  27. Read the science before you quote it, please: “… appears that our research is being used by select groups in US and Finland to suggest that gay and bisexual men live an unhealthy lifestyle that is destructive to themselves and to others. These homophobic groups appear more interested in restricting the human rights of gay and bisexuals rather than promoting their health and well being. Overall, we do not condone the use of our research in a manner that restricts the political or human rights of gay and bisexual men or any other group.” International Journal of Epidemiology

  28. As an Eagle Scout, a former professional Scouter, a district volunteer, and father of a young Tiger Cub, I hold my highest regard for the latter title: father. As a father, my supreme responsibility to my children is their safety, provision and instilling in them a set of Godly values by which to conduct themselves across their lifetime. I am responsible before God for this last matter when I die and enter into eternity.

    An organization which bends with the social winds of the day for the sake of quick money and the praise of a small but vocal minority is not trustworthy. Nor is it loyal to the heritage of Scouting. It certainly isn’t helpful to the parents in our society who are looking for an organization with backbone to reinforce their own family values. We can be friendly and courteous and kind to our homosexual friends but still be obedient to our Creator God in standing for His ways. We should be cheerful in service to those in our community who need our help but not place out youth at risk of being indoctrinated by this harmful life choice. We may need to be more thrifty if we lose some select sponsors, but God will provide! Be brave and stand for God’s Word and do not let your moral compass be influenced by outside forces in our depraved culture. Finally, be reverent and pray your conscience be pricked and guided by our Creator Thursday and beyond.

    As for me and my house, we will serve The Lord. Not a man-made program only. I pray we come out on the right side of this issue or I will miss my days as a Scouter. My young sons will be looking to me to teach them right from wrong and keep them safe from any harm. God will be watching me too.

    One final thought, say we vote to not include gays, do you think this minority position will relent and respect our views? Is that a reason to concede though? May God help us all.

  29. I think the problem with this argument is that it boils down to “don’t abandon the kids!” But that is exactly what we are voting to do, not matter which way one’s vote is cast. If you vote this change down, you vote to abandon kids. If you vote for this change, you vote to abandon those same kids… just at a later date. Thus, the BSA has made it impossible to cast a thoughtful, ethically coherent vote (esp. given the proposal’s wording…that tactically placed “alone” at the end). I fear the BSA has and will continue to do irreparable damage to the youth it is supposed to serve, and what remains of its brand identity. There will be no great book on civil rights or leadership that recalls this day as one in which the BSA’s character truly met its conscience… Or shall I say where it’s conscience met its true character? But dare I say: it will be a day when the BSA’s conscience meets its character truthfully. That is how I should say it. It is the honest, heart rending truth. I hope the BSA will be here 100 years from now, as more than what it has been, and better than what it is. In any event, this Thursday, no matter the outcome, we not only proclaim our independence from an interdependent world, we burn our canoes on the island.

    • Well said. I am an Eagle Scout, and served on camp staff for seven summers. I lived scouting for years. But my responsibility to my children cannot allow me to enroll them in a program that endorses homosexual behavior. Me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I hope we can do so through Scouting, but I fear we will have to find another avenue.

      • Thanks, but don’t let anything I said above leave you with the impression I even remotely agree with your world view on homosexuals or morality I do not. Nothing short of total, unfiltered acceptance of the LGBT community at all levels and ages will suffice for me. Nonetheless, you and I both have the same choice to make under the same, extremely difficult circumstances. Whatever you decide, know that I appreciate your service to Scouting and hope you can find a way to stay, bud.

      • Yes, worldview is key here. I have some close friends who identify themselves as gay, and while we don’t often discuss that particular difference we have, I have found that it is an irreconcilable difference based on very different world views.

        As Christians, we believe the Bible is divine revelation from God, and is infallible. It teaches clearly that homosexual behavior is immoral and against God’s plan for mankind. Regardless of whether a person is born with a greater tendency to have a same-sex attraction, to lie, to steal, to rape, or anything else the Bible says is wrong, two things are true: 1) the opinions of people don’t change God’t truth, and 2) we are all sinners whom God loves and for whom mercy is never-ending. Neither God, nor anyone who is truly a Christian, hates a person for any reason, even for an immoral lifestyle. God’s plan is to save us from sin and death, and restore us to righteousness through Christ.

      • Fortunately Shawn, the BSA is not a Christian organization. It accepts members of all faiths. As such, Christian doctrine has no place in determining membership standards for the BSA.

      • Steve,

        It doesn’t need to be specifically a Christian organization… Moral law is older than dirt and crosses religious boundaries. The question is whether the BSA will join many other organizations in becoming hostile to the principles most religious share in adhering to universal moral law.

        It is not we Christians who are trying to change anything. If some folks have a different morality than the status quo, then there are other organizations to join. Why destroy the one last remaining organization that is friendly to the worldview most religions share? Because it’s just a foothold, and you folks won’t stop until we are forced into a corner out of site, cleansed from public view.

        For the record, the point is not to exclude any PERSON from Scouting. The point is to uphold a moral standard that has been held for thousands of years, and certainly since the founding of this nation. If a boy had confusion about his sexuality or problems with same-sex attraction, he should be able to get help rather than be further confused by liars who tell him that is normal. Those kids should have a right to help in dealing with the problems that have led them to that point, whether it was abuse or simple confusion about their identity.


      • Shawn, have you heard of “tyranny of the majority”? Just because the majority of world religions believe that homosexuality is an abomination does not mean it is an ethical and rationally justified view. The liars are the bigotted ones who insist that homosexuality is some sort mental disease that must be cured. Moral standards must be re-evaluated in the light of modern understanding of human biology and psychology. Only a few decades ago, it was considered morally ethical to sterilize patients in mental institutions against their will, or commit acts of eugenics. But as our understanding of the human condition grows, such acts proved themselves to be barbaric and unethical in the light of further learning. As such homosexuality has been moved from the status of a mental disorder to that of a normal attritbute of one’s personality. The only one’s still clinging to the medieval, bigoted views of homosexuality as a disease are those that care not for evidence, learning, and understanding, but think only with their emotions and a closed mind.

  30. If I were a voting member, I would likely vote no, especially when the original proposal changed on us. I can not deny a kid the opportunity to learn and practice the values of Scouting. And I wll be a volunteer Scouter on Friday.

  31. I am an Eagle Scout, a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow, and I earned my church’s religious award, the God and Country. I was extremely active in, and supportive of Scouting, serving in many leaderships positions, working as a member of my local summer camp staff, and participating in essentially every Scouting-related event and activity I knew about. I haven’t been active in Scouting for many years — long story, and not particularly relevant to the current discussion — but I’ve continued to support and make contributions to the organization.

    When I was active in Scouting in the 70’s, I knew hundreds of Scouts and Scouters and knew them well. Though the issue of gays in Scouting wasn’t discussed then, there were many gay Scouts and several leaders that I knew personally, including two of my best friends — both Eagle Scouts and fellow Vigils. People that knew they were gay weren’t particularly concerned about it. They were good guys and excellent Scouts. They worked as hard as anybody. They were as committed as anybody. They lived the Scout Oath and Scout Law as well as any of us did. That is to say, they came up short from time to time, as we all do, but never failed to make the effort. I’m better for the relationships I developed in Scouting, including those with gay Scouts and leaders.

    Regardless of how this issue is resolved, now and in the future, some people will undoubtedly take exception to the decision. Here’s what I know: With or without openly gay Scouts and Scouters, the program will continue to enrich the lives of young people, as well as those who lead and mentor them. It’s just a question of who will remain and who will be allowed to participate.

    • I think this is a very good description of the situation. LGBT individuals have been a part of Scouting for decades. I too know them personally. It seems that many people do not realize this, because these LGBT individuals appear on the surface to be exactly the same as the hardest working and morally upstanding heterosexual members. Will we now continue to openly shun our members based solely on their sexual orientation? Or will we recognize that sexual orientation has nothing to do with Scouting or one’s worth as a member?

  32. Wayne as an Eagle Scout, Father of a proud Second Class Scout and a Career Professional I will remain dedicated to the program. My single greatest concern is that the wording of the resolution appears to require the BSA to redefine the relationship between the BSA and the Charter Organizations. I can only hope that there is a plan in place to continue to work with our more fundamentalist religious Charter Organizations with out forcing them to violate their own religious beliefs to do so. I am sure that I am not the first person to voice this concern and trust that if the resolution passes that this issue will be addressed as part of the implementation plan.

  33. It’s all about serving the youth and sustaining a program for them. My 4 sons are Eagle scouts and I hope my 3 grandsons will also participate. Let’s get on with working with the youth.

  34. Chief-
    I’m in either way. I’m an Eagle Scout and as a youth, no one ever defined morally straight to me as being heterosexual. I also never saw that desribed as such in my scout handbook. I’m also a Christian and my church teachings do not describe homosexual as immoral. I do understand that many Christians and many Scouts feel differently. I very much respect those varying viewpoints and the passion on either side of this issue. Either way this vote goes though- I’m in – I’m staying. I still have two boys in Scouts and I’m sure they will remain active and excited about their scouting experience too. Thank you for your courage on this societal issue. I’m sure it has been tough on you.

  35. Wayne, I am praying for you and all of us this week and beyond. My board and my staff are united by the mission of the BSA. Now more than ever we need to lose ourselves in that mission which is simply to serve children. We have all heard thousands of opinions on either side of this issue from good people. I have listened very respectfully to people from both sides. I have faith that all children are God’s children. If Jesus were on this earth in the form of man he would be helping those most in need. Thank you for the managerial courage to discuss this issue respectfully and also for the volunteer governance and engagement.

  36. Mr. Brock:
    I have perused the replies sent to far, and I really don’t think mine is going to make any difference, but…..
    I became a Cub Scout at age 8 when my Mother became Den Mother. I stayed in Scouting until I was 17. I served as Den Chief for our Pack of 4 or 5 boys. I knew we had a troop and a pack that met at the synagogue or a parent’s house. I enjoyed going on overnights at the local regional park at least once a month, even in the winter. I never knew about our local Council, or that there was a National organization that we were a part of. I never heard of Philmont until my cousin lost a finger tip to a hatchet while he was there one summer, and I later realized his father was a Scouting Professional in another state. 43 years later, I was hired as support staff at NCAC and I have enjoyed the satisfaction of what I am doing and what the movement means to the thousands of youth in this council.
    I knew what the membership policy was when I was hired, and regardless of the vote (I won’t even say if I am for or against) I will continue to work at your side for the good of those we serve. Social issues have no place in the over-all picture of what Scouting stands for and what it can do to help a youngster learn to make intelligent decisions. As a matter of fact, I think the net result of this controversy will help many youth to make intelligent decisions that may or not agree with their parent’s opinions.

  37. I misunderstood. I thought scouting was about the outdoors. About leadership. About community service. About teamwork. About perseverance. About life skills. About building self confidence. About citizenship. About preserving, protecting and appreciating nature. About goal setting. About overcoming and exceeding what a person thought he could do. About reverence. Maybe I misunderstood during my past service. You guys are talking about something else entirely.

  38. If Scouting is to truly reflect the values that this country was founded on, the religious views or principles of one group should not dictate policy for the rest of our secular Scouting organization. So let’s keep sex and politics out of Scouting and leave religious views where they belong, in the religious institutions and in the families.

    BSA can legally continue to insist that it will exercise the right to judge members or potential members by their innate human characteristics. BSA can legally chose to continue to participate in the immorality of open and avowed discrimination against a certain class of persons. BSA can continue to act hypocritically when it pretends to claim that it prepares young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes while it engages in immoral exclusionary practices. BSA can do these things – but it dishonors itself in so doing.

    Richard F. Landrigan
    V.P. Membership & Relations
    Knox Trail Council

    • Well said Richard. My 5 year old nephew is not allowed to join an organization that discriminates.
      You would think a strong organization such as the BSA would have figured this out years ago.
      Include all, no matter race, creed, religious affiliation, or sexual preference.
      Don’t be on the wrong side of history.
      All men are created equal. That’s stated in the holy book, right?
      The weak and fearful will leave and the BSA will continue right along…

    • Richard,

      Has it ever really been proven that homosexuality is an innate human characteristic? I’m convinced it is not. Not by my own thinking, but by all the ex-homosexuals who’ve received deliverance. They’ve told me how great it is to be set free from the prison that lifestyle put them in. They lead full joyous lives now.

      Telling them “It’s okay and we accept you like you are” deprives them of the hope of deliverance.

      • Michael, as a Biologist, I can assure you that the preponderance of evidence indicates that homosexuality is completely natural, and is a characteristic formed by a combination of innate traits and experiences. Not only is it a naturally occurring human characteristic, but it is also a naturally occurring characteristic across a large amount of the animal kingdom.

      • Steve,

        Nature is what we were put in this world to rise above.

        It is also “natural” for most primates to kill. The function of morality is to curb natural behaviors and allow us to live together in society. It’s called civilization.

        Michael is right.

  39. I can’t imagine anywhere I’d rather be. I’m staying! No matter what the vote, I support the Boy Scouts of America.

  40. On Friday, I will be packing for camp – we have a summer camp to open and staff week starts on Sunday. We all have a job to do and I plan on doing my best.

    • It concerns me that lack of common sense of many leaders involve in the BSA have. For a moment just observe and read the history of the developed of any sociaty in the world, if one is to change the foundation of the existing sociaty, it must start with the removing of the pillars of the current system. Camarad Lennin put it this way :

  41. “Build me a Scout, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weakand brave enough to face himself when he is afraid; one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory… Build me a Scout whose wishes will not take the place of deeds; a Scout who himself is the foundation stone of knowledge…

    Lead him, I pray, not in the path of ease and comfort, but under the stress and spur of difficulties and challenge. Here let him learn to stand up in the storm; here let him learn compassion for those who fail…

    Build me a Scout whose heart will be clear, whose goals will be high. A Scout who will master himself before he seeks to master others, one who will march into the future, yet never forget the past…

    And after all these things are his, add, I pray, enough of a sense of humor so that he may always be serious, yet never take himself too seriously. Give him humility, so that he may always remember the simplicity of true wisdom, and the meekness of true strength…

    Then I, a Scouter who knew him, will dare to whisper, `I have not lived in vain.'”

    See everyone after the vote

    J.T.Dabbs, III
    Scout Executive, Greater Alabama Council

  42. It’s interesting so many comments talk about serving the youth. I didn’t approach the boys in my troop with this–and I certainly did not reveal my personal opinion to them. But most the boys heard about the issue and plainly stated they’ll leave the program if homosexuality is allowed in. There won’t be much point in my remaining a scoutmaster without boys in the troop.

    BSA fought this all the way to the Supreme Court and won. Just recently, a two-year study was conducted and concluded that the membership standard should not allow openly or avowed homosexuals. Why have the resources spent on the above been thrown away and this issue pursued? Well, it’s pressure from those who don’t agree with BSA’s policy.

    As to the Voice of the Scout Membership Survey, how can we throw out a recent two-year study and feel confidence in the executive summary of a two-month study/survey? The survey revealed support of the current policy by 61% of Boy Scout parents; 50% of Cub Scout parents; 62% of unit leaders; 64% of district and council volunteers; and 72% of chartered organizations.

    No matter the decision of the vote, I’m concerned that irreparable harm has already been done to the scouting program. If the standards stay the same, the youth in my troop might not quit. But such controversy is now underfoot in scouting that the program will suffer anyway from lost support, more law suits, etc.

    The BSA maintains that no member can row into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God, although it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward religious training. I can respect others views, but that doesn’t mean I should drop my own. I do get along very well with others who have divergent views from mine. I admire their devotion to God and thank them for that. As to the questions of why do so many point to the Bible when talking of duty to God? Well, every time we say the scout oath we say, “On my honor, I will do *MY* best to do *MY* duty to God. For me the Bible is my handbook on my duty to God. Do you prefer the Koran? Fine, what does it say? I admit, I haven’t personally read it, but those who have don’t seem to accept homosexuality. Only cultural opinion can be used to back acceptance of homosexual behavior as normal.

    I good friend and active scouter let me read his input the scouting leadership. One of his points was that those who are pursuing an economic and social agenda rather than an agenda to benefit our current members should be removed from their responsibilities. Definitely and interesting point that deserves consideration. So, so many resources of scouting have been tied up over the past few months dealing with a social issue rather than serving our youth.

    My bible, my handbook for duty to God, in Second Corinthians 6, verses 17 and 18 states, “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”

  43. Mr. Landigran has is exactly right.
    The Boy Scouts is NOT a conservative Christian organization, it accepts members of ALL faiths. I am a Unitarian Universalist, and my faith openly accepts LGBT members as human beings, the same as anyone else. I know there are many Christian sects that also accept LGBT members openly. If the BSA retains its discriminatory policies against LGBT members, it is basically saying that my and others’ religious beliefs in the inherent worth and acceptance of every human being are incompatible with Boy Scouts. You may have personal feelings against homosexuality but that is your personal opinion, NOT the views of the BSA. Your personal religious beliefs are also YOURS ALONE, and are not representative of the beliefs of the BSA.
    I am truly saddened by the amount of prejudice and misinformation expressed and continued by commentators here; my fellow Scouts and Scouters. Nowhere in the Scouting curriculum has there ever been a place for ANY aspect of sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual. Its not in the Scout Handbook, its not in the Oath or Law (and no, ‘morally straight’ is not talking about one’s sexual orientation, but one’s personal code of ethics). From Tiger Cubs to Eagle Scout, no one ever taught me, or anyone I know, that any one sexual orientation is ‘good’ and another is ‘bad’. The issue of sexual orientation has nothing to do with Scouting, it never has, and probably never will. That is not what Scouting is about.
    Some of you are saying that homosexuality is a choice; please then, tell me when in your life you personally chose to be heterosexual? Homosexuality is NOT a choice, its an inherent aspect of one’s personality.
    Others are equating homosexuals with pedophiles. This is ridiculous and insulting. By this logic, all heterosexuals are pedophiles too because some men molest little girls. This is absolutely not true. It is unfortunate that such crimes take place, but to discriminate against an entire group of people because of the crimes of some individuals is tantamount to bigotry. After all, this whole discussion is about bigotry; the irrational hatred and contempt for a group of people, and its based on exaggerated and/or fabricated characteristics.
    No one is going to be ‘teaching homosexuality’ to Scouts, and Scouts will no more ‘learn homosexuality’ from gay Scouts and Scouters than they might learn about about it from other children in their school, or from a misguided Google search. And they surely are not going to be ‘turned gay’ by their exposure to homosexual peers.
    Amongst many of these comments, there is a false characterization of the issue as being “us vs. them”. This is not a case of “gays trying to get into Scouting”, because there *ALREADY ARE* LGBT members in Scouting. They have been there all along, hiding in the closet because they know that if they are exposed, they will be discriminated against by people like the commenters here. I personally know many gay Eagle Scouts, OA members and Vigil Honor members, people that have been faithfully serving their Troops, Chapters, and Councils for YEARS. These people are some of the most respected members of their groups, but if word got out that they were not heterosexual then they could be kicked out! This is not a case of “us vs. them”, there is no ‘gay agenda’ here. Realize that almost 5% of the population is gay. Thats about 1 in 20 people. Now think about the hardest workers in your Troops, Chapters, and Councils. I am sure you can come up with more than 20 people. Odds are that some of those people are gay, and that these gay members have contributed great things to the BSA, all while hiding their sexual orientation. If you want to ban homosexuals from the BSA, then realize that you also would be kicking out thousands of hard working, honest, and upstanding Scouts and Scouters as well.

  44. While I recognize and respect the reality of and differing opinions on the situation, I can’t help but feel that it is placed in context when we watch the horrifying news of the tornado that ripped through Oklahoma tragically claiming the lives of so many (including children). My heart goes out to them. After watching it and praying for those who were killed and those who remain whose lives will never be the same, I went and kissed all three of our sleeping children and prayed that God would continue to protect and watch over them. Life is short, precious and unpredictable. The Boy Scouts of America has and will continue to be one of the greatest organizations in the history of our nation. There is no question that the things that unite us in our life of service to this movement are far greater than any one that may divide us. The truth we can all take great pride in is that young people grow up to be better adults because Scouting is the cornerstone of their character and that because of the Boy Scouts of America, the world is a better place! God bless the BSA yesterday, today, tomorrow and for the next 100 years! I couldn’t be more in!

  45. The vote on Thursday needs to vote down the current proposal, not so much as to hold the line, but because of how it has been derived, and how the topic distorted. When I was a young Scout in the 70s and when I returned with my children in the last decade, Scouting was never a Sex Ed course, but about Citizenship, Physical Fitness and Self Confidence:” The program achieves the BSA’s objectives of developing character, citizenship, and personal fitness.” From
    The Executive Board and all others should start at the beginning and restate that Scouting is about Character Building, Citizenship and Personal Fitness and NOT a Sexual Education course.
    As a Scoutmaster, and other mentoring roles, any time I encounter “boys, being boys” and engaging in disrespectful talk or actions, “Locker Room behavior” I’ll call it, I take a very direct, but tactful approach, and reminded them that a Scout is: Friendly, Kind, Courteous, Clean, and Reverent, amongst the other points.
    If any Scout came to camp with explicit or hateful material, what would be done with that material? How would that Scout be “Coached” and “Mentored”? Bad behavior is bad behavior.
    When I encounter Adults that are around Scouts that are not being good examples of the Scouting Principles, I explain to the Scouts that people will judge you not just by your good actions, but also by your less than good actions.
    The thought that we will imply that we promote sex to youth under the age of consent is a pitiful departure from the origins of the Scouting Movement. Don’t just vote on the words before you, understand where they come from, who is promoting them and for what agenda, yes AGENDA!
    I will keep my Vigil at the Council Fire until I am the last Brother and all the fuel is spent.
    Kekelesku Witunay (Laughing Beard)

    • Michael you are right, the topic has been distorted, primarily by those against the issue, as can be seen by these comments. The issue before Nationals is not accepting a ‘gay curriculum’, no one is trying to teach Scouts about homosexuality, and no one is trying to promote bad behavior amongst Scouts. The issue is wether or not to continue to enforce discriminatory membership standards that exclude anyone who is not heterosexual.
      “The Executive Board and all others should start at the beginning and restate that Scouting is about Character Building, Citizenship and Personal Fitness and NOT a Sexual Education course.”
      I completely agree with this, Scouting is NOT a SexEd course, and SexEd has no place in Scouting. This policy will NOT change if LGBT members are allowed in Scouting. All that will change is that people will be accepted for who they are and evaluated for membership based on their character and actions, not based on who they love, date, and marry.
      The BSA should not even need a ‘stance on LGBT members’ because sexual orientation has nothing to do with Scouting. As such, it should have no place in setting membership standards for the organization.
      There is no ‘gay agenda’, no one is trying to change the BSA or undermine its core values. There are only thousands of LGBT Scouts, Scouters, and potential members, that want to be judged by their actions, character, and contributions to the program and to the boys it influences, NOT by their orientation.

      • Steve,

        You can say there is no homosexual agenda–and for some perhaps that’s true. But there are those who do pursue an agenda. They will use any open door to destroy anything that stands in their way. Take a look at the path Girl Scouts has taken. They allowed homosexuality in, then God was taken out. Now sex education (including a heavy dose of homosexual education) is easily foisted upon girls.

        The current standards clearly state that we do not ask sexual orientation. The problem with the proposal is that it leaves everything in a very awkward state once an openly and avowed homosexual youth turns 18. I’m not going to rehash that point further.

  46. I have loved Scouting since I was a boy, and all four of my kids, a daughter and three sons, have benefited from the BSA through Cub Scouts, Venturing and Scouting. I have been a leader in all three programs, at my district level, and helped my council. So, no matter what, Scouting will always be in my and my family, whether it is in the BSA or another program.

    The idea of changing the policy to conform to an immoral standard, and a culture that continues to decline morally, grieves me. As a Scouter, I hate to see the possibility that the organization I love may be compromised in a way that will be detrimental to the program, units and youth. If the delegates vote to change the policy I will no longer be able to continue as a member in the BSA, nor will my children. I will, however, participate in any effort to establish alternative Scouting programs that rely on traditional values and moral law.

    There are many outdoors youth programs that have been influenced by the Boy Scouts, and many have abandoned the Duty to God and moral law and focus only on outdoors skills and the fellowship of Scouting. The thing that sets the BSA apart is that, as LBP insisted was necessary, we know that a solid moral foundation is critical for the formation of a young man. If moral law is also abandoned in the BSA, that no longer sets us apart.

    Further, it would open cans of worms. We don’t allow boys to tent with girls, nor for a boy sleep alone in a tent. How will we address tenting of openly gay boys? The Christian faith (as well as most other faiths) teaches that homosexuality is immoral. The new membership policy would open a contradiction in that a Scout would need to live out his faith, but that openly gay youth cannot be prohibited from participating. A Christian unit would have an irreconcilable conflict there.

    I will continue to pray this week for wisdom among the delegates, and that moral law will prevail, with the policy remaining unchanged. I don’t have a vote, but the decision on Thursday will affect whether I and my children remain in Scouting on Thursday.

    Yours in Scouting,
    Shawn Viland
    Venturing Crew Advisor, Crew 77, Aurora, IL
    Public Relations Liaison, Foxfire District, Three Fires Council

  47. Well said Mr Capp. Thank you for sharing Mr Brock. Even though I am opposed to the current policy, and don’t think the proposal is quite good enough, I am still all in for the BSA. My efforts to bring the program to the boys in my Troop and Pack will continue. Yours in Scouting,

    David Schirtzinger
    Committee Chair
    Troop 298
    Simon Kenton Council

  48. I have voiced several concerns about this new policy and many do not agree with me but I plan to stay. I will continue to work internally to change BSA back just as the other side of this issue has continued to press it for years.
    The important question for me is “Will BSA enforce whatever policy is passed Thursday ?” It is an important question since our council, the Connecticut Yankee Council (CYC), recently voted to approve a policy that conflicts with the current national policy and will conflict with the new policy that is expected to pass. The CYC board seems to think the new policy is okay because there were no repercussions when Ct Rivers, Greenwich, and several other councils in the Northeast passed similar resolutions. It is time national stood up to these rogue councils and made it clear there is only one national policy. Councils and troops agree to follow the national policy when they are chartered and again when they recharter. National should restrict these rogue councils from participating in National events until they are realigned with the standards set by National. That means no representatives to the National Jamboree, no trips to the Philmont, Seabase, Northern Tier, or The Summit, and no more OA crews going to NOAC. National has to support local units and cannot allow the continued confusion over which policies we are supposed to follow. Do we follow the national policy or the local council policy ? When our unit is sued because we choose to follow the national policy who has our backs ? The current situation has our sponsoring organizing considering their own exposure.

  49. I’m here to serve youth in the greatest program for youth. “For the boys” is how my father finished every commissioner meeting, and that’s what I’m here to do.

    June 2014, my son will be the 5th generation Scout. Looking forward to our future.

  50. I am making it a point to spend a couple of evenings at unit activities this week. Spending some quality time with our Scouts, leaders and their families helps keep this issue in perspective. I will be on the job on Friday regardless of Thursday’s outcome on this difficult issue.

  51. I have been in Scouting most of my 50 years of age. We have camped and prayed many years with the Boy Scouts of America and enjoyed every minute of God’s blessings. I am an Eagle Scout and Silver Beaver recipient. I have enjoyed raising my three sons (two Eagles and a Life Scout) and daughter in the programs of the Boy Scouts of America. However, I have always put God first in the direction of my life and family. I have also noted that most of the other moral adult scout leaders have also had God in their first priority with ‘safety’ close-running second. I have witnessed parents feeling safer about their son’s leaders knowing that Scouting could be assumed to be ‘morally straight’ and with God. If the policy and direction of the BSA is to change away from our first priority, you will lose more sponsors of the BSA program than what the ACLU tried to eliminate years earlier by forcing Scouting out from public-building sponsorship. Many units were forced to find new sponsors in churches rather than public buildings because of their ‘religious status’. Now…you may be crushing the BSA from within by ceding to the homosexual agenda. Please realize that volunteers that give their hard work, time, and money up for a cause have to believe and have faith in what we are giving. I will not only depart from the BSA in membership if it contradicts its own fine ‘morally straight’ heritage of being with God and reverent, but I will also have to recommend to my church and all the other churches in our synod that it should also consider changing its sponsorship of an organization that contradicts God’s instruction, character, and values. I will donate my time and talents to recommend that Scouting has chosen to abandon God and that parents need to look elsewhere for a safe and healthy moral compass. p.s. I am also a Elder of my church.

  52. So much disgraceful homophobia and misinformed babble. Who would have thought that an organization so progressive in its early beginnings would foster hate and prejudice? Don’t forget that the Boy Scouts of America welcomed in children of all races and religions prior to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. It was an unpopular choice, especially in the South. Does anyone think that was a bad idea? Of course not. Be on the right side of history.

    • Please show me where that hate stuff is in the BSA literature… in over 50 years with the program I have yet to find it… I do find a lot of stuff about tolerance and respect for the rights of others but so far I have missed the part about hating others.

      • Yes John, you’ve got a really good point. Where is the hate stuff in the BSA literature. I admit, I’m very much against homosexuality. But I don’t hate them. I offer the deliverance that many I know have already received. To think what a homosexual does is wrong does not mean that anyone is hateful. It merely says the behavior is wrong. If saying something was wrong meant I was hateful, then every parent has to routinely hate their children or you can’t correct them.

  53. We were asked 3 questions (paraphrasing): (i) homosexual kid “discovers” he’s gay right before making Eagle, kick him out?, (ii) OK for homosexual kid to share a tent with other boys?, (iii) admit homosexual leaders? Number 3 was clearly shot down. Results for #2 were not released, but would not be surprised if most were against it (and how are we going to deal with that). The admission change is not based on discovery right before making Eagle, it’s a blanket acceptance of homosexual youth. If it’s wrong for adults then it’s wrong for youth. We were told for years that “Our values are not for sale” – well, they’re for sale now. Values are not tied to public opinion – for 103 years “Clean” and “Morally Straight” excluded homosexuals. If this passes, please allow a short amount of time for implementation so that my son can get to Eagle and we can get out of Scouting as fast as possible. Every pro-homosexual group has already said this change is insufficient, and opening this door only empowers them to attack Scouting more.

    • “Clean” and “Morally Straight” have nothing to do with one’s sexual orientation. The idea of homosexuality being immoral is NOT a part of Scouting, that is your own construction. If you need a refresher on what the Scout Oath and Law *really* means, check out these links:

      “. . . and morally straight.

      To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.”

      “A Scout is Clean.
      A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.

      There is NOTHING in Scouting that makes any mention of any sexual orientation being tied to one’s morality. If you feel this way, then you are projecting your own prejudices upon Scouting. Further, your personal religious beliefs about homosexuality are *your own* and not those of the BSA, and as such they should not be used by any member of the BSA to dictate any sort of standards.

      The truth is that there is no rational argument against homosexuality that does not stem from bigotry, religious belief, or misinformation. Bigotry has no place Scouting. “A Scout is reverent”; your religious beliefs are yours alone, and as as Scout or Scouter you should respect the beliefs of those who accept LGBT individuals. The misinformation that abounds from people such as these commentators is truly unfortunate, and stems from a desire to stereotype, outcast, and vilify others whom they do not understand or whom are different from themselves.

      Discrimination has no place in Scouting.

      • To say there is nothing in scouting saying homosexuality is wrong is ignoring the specific wording in the current policy. It’s ignoring the legal arguments presented all the way up to the supreme court. You can say the arguments against homosexuality aren’t rational, but I can say homosexuality is not rational. If it were simply a matter of two boys holding hands . . . . But I don’t believe it is. I don’t base this on fear or hatred. But on my own personal experiences and exposure to homosexuality. And upon the testimony of delivered homosexuals that I know.

        The current policy specifically states no “openly or avowed” homosexuals. If a homo is openly showing their “sexual orientation”, they are not welcome. Just as with any illicit sexual behavior.

      • Okay, you’ve said it better than I ever could. Until recently I didn’t realize how many people interpreted “morally straight” and “A scout is Clean” in the context of sexual orientation.

      • Yes Michael, that is a good point, obviously the current policy explicitly prohibits homosexuals from entry into the BSA. However, this is not something that is part of any code of ethics taught by Scouting; its not part of the Scouting curriculum, its not part of the Oath or Law, its nowhere in the handbook, its just plain not a part of what Scouting is all about, and it is not something that we teach the youth. As such, I strongly feel that the current policy does not reflect the true values of Scouting, but the values of the policy makers who are thus projecting their own morality upon the entire organization.

  54. Editor’s Note: Although all opinions and points of view are welcome on this site, personal attacks and unsubstantiated accusations are not, and will not be tolerated. If you have tried to post a comment and it has not yet appeared on this site, it likely ran afoul of the BSA’s social media policies or WBtv’s commenting guidelines (found at the top of the page, or here:

    John Churchill
    Internal Communications

  55. Thanks to the CSE for saying what needs to be said. I am all in regardless of the results. Always have been and always will be!

  56. The co-ed youth in Sea Scouts that I talked to could care less one way or the other. It’s the adults who are making the real stink. Maybe the vote should be left up to the youth. It IS their program. And I’ll be here after the vote no matter which way it goes.

  57. This is NOT a democratic vote. The voting members were not elected by the majority nor do they have any obligation to vote how their Council’s members expressed their opinions on the matter.

    There has never been in history a vote by the majority to grant civil rights to a minority, it is ALWAYS through the judicial and legislative systems. I don’t see it happening here either.

    Gay people are not represented by media clips of Gay Pride parades. Please do not equate that with all gay people. Gay people are people and are perfectly capable of being morally straight. Oh, there you go, making it about sex again…

    This membership policy has NOT been around for 103 years. The words “open and avowed homosexual” were not uttered in 1910, closer to 1960. Quit using that as a guiding standard.

    Finally, Wayne, I will still be in Scouting regardless of the vote OR the continuing discussions on this matter. I am here for the boys, any boy who wants to participate regardless if he is gay or straight, big or small, black or white, ADHD or typical, adopted or not, outdoorsy or STEM fanatic…

  58. It was my previous comment that was deleted. I shall try to restate and hope “Internal Control” does not find it too strident this time.

    It is my belief that the BSA is selling its soul for corporate dollars. My boys get enough harassment in school (“You **** know Scouts is gay”) without the organization turning gay. I will not be returning my Eagle medal because I earned it 40 years ago, back when the organization stood its ground. It breaks my heart that my sons will not be able to earn the Eagle rank. It will not be because we left Scouting but because Scouting left us.

    Duty to God, indeed.

    Leviticus 18:22 – “You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is abomination.”

    Canon 2357 of The Catechism of the Catholic Church – “Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.'”

    Romans 1: 27 – “In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

    1 Corinthians 6:10 – “…nor liers with mankind … shall possess the Kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:10 – “… for them who defile themselves with mankind …”

    May sense, honor, truth, bravery, history, and the Spirit Alive guide those who will vote on this issue. Do not ruin a wonderful organization by bowing to the pressure exerted by outsiders.

    • “L.”
      If you choose to leave, then it will be you who left Scouting, not the other way around. Own your decision.

      • David Schirtzinger, my father joined, I joined, and my sons joined, an organization that was safe and founded on moral principles. Now the organization is yielding to the demands of outsiders and activists. I have no doubt some joined specifically to effect this policy change from within. BSA was the one organization that was safe. No, sir, I did not join a pro-homosexual organization. I joined the Boy Scouts of America. You know, “morally straight”. I suggest that the National Council form a separate division along the lines of Learning for Life. The new division would utilize the homosexual-friendly membership policy, and traditional Boy Scouting would continue as before.

        Believe me, and I told you so right here, right now, today; if this change passes, next we will see pressure for homosexual adults, and after that, atheists. Then even worse.

        Finally, David Schirtzinger, what part of “that is abomination” do you not understand?

      • L.,
        I have the same long Scouting history as you. My family goes back to the beginning of Scouting. The Scouting museum has some of my grandfather’s memorabilia from the BSA past. I and many like me are not “outsiders” but Scouters who love the BSA as much as you claim to, but we aren’t threatening to walk out if the BSA doesn’t what we want.

        And finally L, what part of “Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material” do you not understand?

        The fact that you would even cite Leviticus to me suggest that homosexuals aren’t the only ones you would like to see banned from Scouting.

      • I have to reply here, sorry; there is no reply button for comments further down the thread.

        First, David, you make the same mistake that many pro-homosexual activists make, ignoring the fact that St. Paul specifically dispensed Christians from the rigors of most of Jewish law but did not dispense the prohibition against homosexuality. In fact, Paul specifically mentions both malakoi and arsenokoitai in his first letter to the Corinthians.

        Steve, why would it be pretentious for me not to expose my sons to same-sex activity? Boy Scouting was safe, one organization I could trust, and now BSA decides to toss over 100 years of tradition and history on the trash heap, just because some attention-seeking strident voices want to indoctrinate our sons. Steve, I am sorry that the inspired Word of God offends you. May you one day be led to Truth.

        What happens if my sons do not want to share a tent with an actively homosexual youth member? No doubt the troop gets sued for “homophobia” or “hostile environment”.

        I have a feeling that both of you are going to get what you want, that at the end of the day today BSA will become friendly to the avowed, open, and active homosexual youth. Then the first time one of those youth members turns 18 and wants to be an Assistant Scoutmaster, and is denied, the lawsuit will not be far behind. And BSA will welcome avowed, open, and active homosexual adults.

    • L, I seriously hope you are not pulling your child out of the program just because you may or may not disagree with the upcoming vote results. That would be an incredibly pretentious act. Further, I hope you are not pressuring your children into leaving either. If they want to stay and earn their Eagle, that is THEIR choice, not yours, and you would be doing them one of the greatest disservices in the world by taking it away from them. I think all of us can agree that attaining the rank of Eagle Scout is one of our proudest and most significant achievements.
      Also, I respectfully request that you refrain from using Bible verses as if they should dictate the BSA’s policies; your religion is your own, and those of us who are not Christians (remember, the BSA accepts people of all faiths) are tired of seeing our differing religious views disregarded in this way. My duty to God involves loving all human beings regardless of race, creed, orientation, etc. To assert that the proposed change in policy goes against one’s duty to God is a slap in the face to all of us who understand God’s love to be non-discriminatory.

    • At the scouting ages this shouldn’t even be a issue brought up. If they want to live their life that way that is their choosing but that shouldn’t be during or even brought up with scouting events or between scouts. Nothing I can say or do will matter but my sons will continue to finish what they started and not give up. If another is to confront him with this subject then things will change on how he is in scouts. Don’t ask Don’t tell is the best saying because it shouldn’t be a discussion at/during any scouting event so we don’t need to know and keep your hands to yourself. Hate to see your kids missing out but I do understand. I will be completely involved in my scouts scouting to hopefully foresee no incidents would happen to them. I hate to see that they think this as discrimination but if you keep it/hands to yourself no one knows and is hurt from it. I worry that the next thing we see is polygamists wanting the same things passed through out our nation.

  59. “Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party.” Paraphrasing that old typing practice line, now is the time for all Scouters to come to the aid of the Movement. A “No” vote will best support the youth we serve, the institutions we work through, and the Movement we wish to see endure. The resolution promotes neither the purposes of the BSA nor the Mission Statement of the organization. We of the BSA know our purpose, our mission; we should not let outside forces divert our energies from that purpose. After 35 years of professional service (and continuing service as a volunteer), I greatly resent the efforts of non-members to so radically effect the Boy Scouts of America.

    • A “yes” vote will not be “radical” and the proposal, is not just being pushed by “outsiders.” I know it would be so much more comfortable for some if it was really us against them, but it is really us against us. Only Scouts are voting.

      • The BSA organization is being destroyed by outsiders and by fifth columnists within our own ranks. There are those who seek to normalize homosexuality, to make it an acceptable “lifestyle choice” for impressionable adolescents and teens. Predators and their enablers are supporting this change; it is that simple.

    • Hi Stu, Well said and while I support a ‘no’ vote, I do believe that this will still be the best overall program for boys and for young adults. Guess we will know tomorrow…

    • Stuart, I too am not comfortable with outsiders attempting to affect the voting outcome, and I think the same goes for the Scouters who are voting. As such, I am sure that those influences will be/have been disregarded by the voters. This proposal is not one that has been pushed on the BSA from outside, but one that has been called for from its own members (and if there is evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it). Believe it or not, Mr. Schwarzer, there are many Scouts and Scouters that feel that the current policy is wrong.

  60. The Boy Scouts of America has released the membership resolution that will be voted on in May. It is positive in one small aspect. That is, changing the policy for adults has been taken off the table. That is a good thing, but the proposed resolution is not a good thing. (Official link to the resolution:

    Most of the resolution is fine and well said. However it utterly fails in two places and destroys its own integrity. Here is the first problem which is in the preamble leading up to the resolution:

    “AND WHEREAS, Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting; and
    WHEREAS, the Boy Scouts of America does not have an agenda on the matter of sexual orientation, and resolving this complex issue is not the role of the organization, nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda…”

    It is absurd to say that “any sexual conduct” is “contrary to the virtues of Scouting” and then immediately follow that with a contradictory statement. It is true that we can and should avoid a political position or agenda, but politics is not the issue. We do have a position, including a social position on sexual morality. We just stated part of it: “Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether homosexual or heterosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting…” That is a position and rightly so.

    The other problem here is the use of the term “sexual orientation.” This term is open-ended and does not have a solid clinical or legal definition. Such vague and morally ambiguous terms should never appear in any BSA statement of any kind.

    We are actually making this political by not standing on Scouting’s ethics and morals. Because these statements have a political tint to them we are falling into a political trap of own making.

    The second problem is in the resolution itself::

    “Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all youth who meet the specific membership requirements to join the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Sea Scout, and Venturing programs. Membership in any program of the Boy Scouts of America requires the youth member to (a) subscribe to and abide by the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law, (b) subscribe to and abide by the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle (duty to God), and (c) demonstrate behavior that exemplifies the highest level of good conduct and respect for others and is consistent at all times with the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law. No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.”

    What is a “sexual orientation?” What is a “sexual preference?” Sexual orientation has no real definition, but instead an ever changing clinical and legal argument. Sexual preference is an even broader term. This language brings into view an expanding range of behaviors that includes: homosexuality, pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, bestiality, bisexuality, frotteurism, fetishism (of multiple sorts), gender identity disorder, klismaphilia, necrophilia, partialism, sexual sadism, sexual masochism, transgenderism, transsexuality… and this is a limited list. There are more of these orientations than I have listed and more of them coming.

    The paraphilias (abnormal sexual desires) as defined by the American Psychiatric Association have been shifting for years and continue to do so. Right now, not tomorrow or next week or next year, the paraphilias are being moved from mental disorders towards being non-moral value related sexual orientations that cannot be helped or changed (one is simply “made that way”) and our culture is more and more accepting of this “scientific” advancement.

    One can say right now that some of the behaviors listed above are not “sexual orientations” but the direction this is going is clear. What was considered an orientation 20, 30, or 40 years ago, if such a definition even existed, is not what it is today. And what is considered an orientation today is not what it will be in the future. The APA’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in its first and second editions (DSM-I and DSM-II) maintained that homosexuality was a mental disorder. In revisions three and four (DSM-III and DSM-IV) it is not.

    Revision five (DSM-V) which is due to come out in May of 2013 continues to move more sexual behaviors out of the disorder classification. DSM-V will contain a major change in how sexual behaviors are viewed by creating a new classification called “paraphilic disorders.” Behaviors such as masochism, fetishism, transvestitism, and other behaviors will not be considered a disorder unless a person feels “distress” about their sexual desires.

    If the BSA drops moral judgment on sexual behaviors and ties its acceptance of behaviors to whatever is considered an orientation or preference, we will have to accept all the myriad behaviors that come along.

    What we are really talking about here is sexual morality. Sexual orientation is the vague language of political correctness. This resolution, if passed, will open the door to all sorts of un-Scout-like behaviors and will harm if not end our Scouting ethic. We are, in the words of Baden-Powell, “a society for the propagation of morals.” We are an ethics and morals based organization. This includes sexual morality and it must include sexual behaviors. We cannot compartmentalize our morals.

    For the BSA to tie itself to the ever changing notion of “sexual orientation” or “sexual preference” and remove moral judgment as it relates to sexual behaviors is wrong. It is worse than wrong. It is harmful.

    Please, National Council voters do not accept this resolution.

    • How is it harmful?

      Seems to me that the easiest thing to do would be to remove all policies based on sexual orientation or preference and just ban all sexual conduct.

    • Mr J.Weaks/NC- You have some good insights. Thanks for the comments and keep up the good work. I am with you, I wish the vote had been no. I wonder if the the National Council will ever bring this to a vote again to reverse the decision. ( I think we know the answer)

      Sincere Thanks again

  61. Thank you for sharing that letter. The Boy Scouts has and will continue to help shape and move my life in a direction to be a better man and member of my community. I can’t begin to imagine that regardless of the outcome of the vote that my dedication and determination to serving as a professional scouter will diminish. I just hope and pray that we all remember what “A Scout IS ..” as we move forward through the next few weeks. Thank you for your leadership and professionalism in these difficult times.

  62. Wayne, I am a Woodbadge Beaded Scoutmaster of Troop 776 on Ft. Bragg. Regardless of the outcome of the vote, I will not have gay Scouts in my unit. Much the same as I don’t have White Scouts, I don’t have Black Scouts, I don’t have Hispanic Scouts, I don’t have Christian Scouts, I don’t have Buddhist Scouts etc etc…

    Now, that being said… I do have Scouts that are Black… And White… And Christian… And I may have Scouts that happen to be be Gay.

    Who cares. They are all Scouts. When we apply these labels dividing them into little groups, we trivialize them. We pigeon hole their true potential. And we invite stereotypes. None of that is Scouting.

    I am anxious for this vote to be over and done with, and since ‘A Scout Is Obedient…’, I will follow the guidance of National.

  63. I appreciate the thoughtful message, even as I hope that tomorrow the Boy Scouts become more inclusive. My son belongs to a troop made up mostly of Hispanic kids, and we’ve attended jamborees where kids from other troops remarked negatively on the fact that some of our kids were speaking iin Spanish. Accepting difference at many levels is an invaluable life skill, dare I write, more so than knot tying….

  64. I’ve been a boyscout most of my life. Now my eldest son is a scout, and the youngest one is waiting to be 6 year old. I was never aware of this “policy”. Maybe I wasn’t aware because sexuality was never a part of the program. We never had to deal with such thing. My fondest memories are from scouting, and I know the program made a huge impact on what I’m am today. And I want the same for my sons. One of the values that I learned from scouting is to not discriminate, be kind to everyone. Now, if the result of the vote is a “NO”, then I’d sadly have to remove my son, because I don’t want to teach him to discriminate minorities. I’ve read some of the comments, and it seems that some are afraid of getting the “gay virus” passed on, or being “instructed into being gay”. I’m sorry to disappoint you, but homosexuality is not a sickness, and it seems to be determined by genes. And others are afraid of being molested, you have to know there’s a difference between a gay and a pedophile, the later can be gay or straight.

  65. Apparently criticism of National’s handling of this process doesn’t get posted. I wrote a criticism yesterday, and I don’t see it here now. Truth must hurt too much.

    • Mr. Lightbody,

      Your post from yesterday was not approved because it did not comply with our commenting guidelines, which ask that you post in a “Scout-like” manner and refrain from making personal attacks. Opinions and criticisms are welcome, as the 130+ comments in this thread (from both sides of the issue) will attest. We only ask that you remain courteous to other Scouters who are just as dedicated to — and passionate about — this movement as you are.

      John Churchill
      BSA Internal Communications

    • Ignacio,

      Safety of the scouts is our number one reason for voting NO. A vote of yes simply opens up the BSA to more lawsuits when a homosexual scout turns 18 and wants to be a leader. As stated earlier..not all homosexuals are pedophiles but all male leaders that sexual exploit scouts are by definition homosexuals. There can be no argument with this statement as it is FACT.

  66. Regardless of the vote I’ll still be here inviting boys to join Scouts. What’s the big deal shouldn’t every boy have the opportunity to be a Scout and have the same benifit that we did.

  67. Now that the vote is taking place, I hope that the folks at National will have a mass email to the field at the same time that they release the result to the media. Of course, anyone sitting on their computer waiting for the result will probably find it on CNN seconds after it is announced. Still, it would be nice for National to see that an accurate notice reaches the employees promptly.

      • Hi John, that was fast… I expect we are all looking forward to this being settled so we can get the focus back on the program and the kids.

  68. John Whitford, this is nowhere near being settled. Check out Huffington Post’s Gay Voices page. You will find a strident homosexual activist lamenting this vote because homosexual adults will not be permitted to be leaders. Check it out:

    Among the things he says are: “There is a lot of work to be done.” “We’re not satisfied.” “The fight is going to go on.” “We need to get major corporations to pull funding.”

    Just wait five years or so. Maybe less. Homosexual adult leaders will be allowed. The wedge has been driven deep into the organization. It will crack given enough time.

  69. Have just read several news articles on the change and the tone is that ‘BSA’s controversies are far from over’. Gay activist groups have pledged to continue to push for total inclusion and athiests are right there with them. The vote should have been all or nothing. This is just blood in the water. If the BSA wasn’t prepared to go all the way they should never have reopened this can of worms.

  70. Sir,
    I believe I emailed you back in March this year, with my answers to the survey questions. At the same time I said that I could not respect someone who their organisation supported discrimination. Today I would like to retract that statement publicly, even tho the new membership policy to allow homosexual youth to join is only a half way step, I believe that it is a step in the right direction. For all of those who have stood their ground and ridicule over this matter I stand beside them as a brother in scouting as part of the larger scouting family. Yes there will be some losses, some opposition but that is to be expected with change however at the end of the day it will be the youth who are the winners.

    David Richardson
    Scout Leader
    1st Warnbro Sound Sout Group
    Western Australia
    Scouts Australia

  71. I am glad that you listened to both sides, but I am disappointed that you can’t take a stand like your predecessor, Robert J. Mazzuca, did. On the surface you appear as if you were okay with however the vote turned out. In the supposed desire to be inclusive of all, we have decided to exclude others. I don’t think this is the right thing to do. Will the BSA ever have another vote on this? We know the answer. I expected a leader to actually be a leader. In the balance of your life I hope that you are strong enough to stand firm for something.

  72. So what will BSA do, when the next point of contention is a Scout doing their Duty to God? My guess is that the same companies that wanted the policy changed will be back for more concessions.

  73. Not only are the homosexual groups going to do everything they can to get homosexual adults into leadership positions, but atheist groups are now charged up and ready to go to war. And one woman wrote an opinion piece in which she encourages pro-homosexual heterosexuals to flood BSA with adult applications so they can work from inside to get homosexual adults accepted as leaders.

    Don’t take my word for it, check it out at the source:

    I enrolled in Scouting in 1968. The day I never thought I would see has arrived. It appears to me that most of those putting a positive spin on this decision are professional Scouters (you know on which side your bread is buttered). Yep, if you voted for this change, give yourself a hearty pat on the back. Sit back and watch the fruits of your handiwork. In 5 years you will not recognize the BSA. Then congratulate yourselves for a job well done.

    • I’m with you L. The scouts will end up serving far fewer young men, and it will be not be the positive influence that it once was.

  74. I have now left scouting after 25 years. You have a lot of nice words there, Mr Brock, but you’re missing the mark completely.

  75. To Mr Brock and the brave volunteers who voted for the resolution:
    Thank you again. You made the right decision. I will never have to tell one of my Scouts that he can’t attain our highest honor because of who he is. I would have gone further, but I appreciate what you have done thus far. The BSA still stands for what it has always stood for and those who are packing up and leaving have apparently missed the point (developing youth of good character who are responsible citizens) or have tried to mold our program into something that it was never intended to be (a dogmatic reflection of their particular faith tradition). The BSA will not only survive this, but ultimately thrive. I wish everyone would stay, but some think we can’t possibly accomplish our mission with a few youth who may be gay. It’s too bad. I think they are mistaken and question their ability as adult leaders if they think they can’t exert the necessary supervision to make it work.
    I also would like to add that so far, I have only had one parent inquire with me regarding the new policy and they are not leaving the BSA. It’s turned out to not be a big deal at all for our Troop.
    Thanks again.

    • Wow. I think you’ve missed the point. The old policy didn’t kick anyone out because they happened to be homosexual. You ought to read the piece written by Rob Green, of the Palmetto Council. In 20 years, he never kicked out a homosexual youth, nor is he aware of anyone else who ever did. The new policy opens the door to avowed homosexuals. When someone feels they need to proclaim sexual orientation/bias/pick-your-term, they’ve got an agenda that has no place in a youth development organization.

      • Definition of avowed

        that has been asserted, admitted, or stated publicly;

        they came to power with the avowed aim of promoting religious toleration

        I am an avowed heterosexual; my sister-in-law is an avowed lesbian; my friend is an avowed homosexual; my husband was an avowed heterosexual; two boys in our district are avowed homosexuals. Just because one is “openly” gay, does not make them any less a valued member of society, nor should it make them any less a valued member of Scouting!

        My son is not in scouting to hear about anyone’s sexuality – gay, straight, or otherwise. Nor is he in scouting to learn how to be a “man”. He is in scouting because he is with a group of boys that have a shared interest in service to the community, leadership skills, camping, hiking, and new experiences, but most of all to have fun.

  76. These people that voted to allow SIN into our organization have NO clue as to how badly this makes us look. How can I ever say Morally Straight ever again during the Scout OATH as an Eagle and feel Godly and humble about that??? Who won the victory here folks??? Time will tell. Very sad…..God is truly weeping….but America has turned it;s back upon the One who blesses us daily!!!

  77. Not all religions view homosexuality as a sin. Scouting encompasses a wide variety of belief systems, and your interpretation of morally straight is exactly that, an interpretation based on your religious beliefs. Which fortunately for us, being a free country and all, we don’t have to agree with your interpretation, and thankfully, nor does the BSA!

  78. C Wallace, I am assuming you are not a Christian. All Christian faiths view homosexuality as a sin. What some religions have changed recently is to say love the sinner not the sin. Just as these faiths say to forgive an alcoholic, pornographer & gambler if they GIVE up the sinful act(s). The bible is clear on what is says about homosexuality whether you believe it or not.

    • Really?!?…..You do know that being Christian is not a requirement for being in Scouting! You don’t have to believe in the Bible to be in Scouting….just ask any Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, or rather just attend any Jamboree and see the myriad of Religious services that are offered that are not Christian and don’t use a Christian Bible. Thank goodness scouting is for youths of all religious beliefs not just Christian, how narrow minded would that be!

      Whether I am Christian or not, is not the question. In the real world that our boys live in they will have to live, work, and learn to function with men and women of different politics, religions, ethnicities, and yes even sexual preferences.

  79. D Youngquist is correct that the bible is clear about homosexuality, both old and new testaments. This issue is a whole lot more complex for those who view it as the vote moving the BSA towards an acceptance of homosexuality. We have no guarantee that this is not the first step towards total acceptance of homosexuality at all levels. The vast majority of leaders will probably not have to deal with the reality of openly homosexual youth or adults joining their particular unit. Still, many will wince at the change in ‘tone’ of morally straight, clean and reverent as their understanding of how that was defined has now and will forever be changed. Our Scout Exec said that we have lost $38,000 in funding over this change. That is a staff position. Scouting continues to be a great program and many of us do know men who were scouts who in later life came out as homosexual. We do not define them by their sexuality but we do understand that being openly homosexual means that they cannot be registered adults in the program. I expect to see that change in the not too distant future. We continue to be attacked by the activists and the liberal media. We continue to be defunded by corporations and United Ways that were, for years, our close and supportive friends. We are not a church; we are not here to change anyone. We are here to reinforce the values and standards that our families and partners want to see instilled in our youth and future leaders. I hope that we don’t lose sight of our purpose and that this issue doesn’t continue to haunt and harm our program.

    • C Wallace,
      I do not wish to argue with you but at no time did I mention Christianity & Boy Scouts in my answer. All I said…well you can reread my post. I believe you are trying to infer something that was neither said or implied. How many great leaders must we lose such as Rob Green from Palmetto Council as well as CO’s, troops, leaders, troops, packs & scouts before we only have shell of a program left.

  80. Thank you to everyone who has posted their thoughts on this video (and topic in general). While your views are welcome, it is difficult to continue moderating comments from videos posted several months ago while continuing to work on new episodes. This becomes especially apparent when specific questions are posted, and we are unable to answer them in a timely fashion. Therefore, rather than posting your question or comment here, we are asking that you contact your local Scout executive directly with any pertinent questions about policies, procedures, and the like. Thank you again for your feedback.

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